SUPERNATURAL: Jeremy Carver on Sam and Dean’s ‘Ruptured Bond,’ Castiel’s Reluctance to Lead, and More
March 18, 2014 by Marisa Roffman
The Winchester brothers have had a rough go of it lately, as the duo are working together despite a whole lot of tension…and in tonight’s brand new episode of SUPERNATURAL, Crowley is back in the mix.
To get a little bit of information about what kind of drama that return will bring, I spoke with SUPERNATURAL boss Jeremy Carver about Sam and Dean’s ruptured bond, Castiel’s new followers, the Mark of Cain, and more…
What can you tease about tonight’s episode?
Jeremy Carver: Well, you will see what Crowley’s been up to since he brought Dean to Cain. I think it’s been teased that he may have fallen off the wagon. And we’ll get a real good sense of what that’s all about. And we’re going to see Dean come in the vicinity of the First Blade for the first time, and that’s going to kick off this whole Mark of Cain business for Dean and what that all means.
How much will Dean be dealing with the Mark of Cain as we gear towards the end of the season? Will that and Abaddon be his main focus, or will there be other obstacles be coming up?
JC: I think you’re definitely going to see other obstacles. And not to spoil too much, it really kicks off [with “Blade Runners”]. I don’t think anyone knows exactly what this Mark of Cain means, or what it means, particularly, when it comes into contact with the blade, and what that’s going to do to Dean is certainly something he’s going to have to deal with, I think we can comfortably say, throughout the rest of the season.
Since Crowley has fallen off the wagon, will he be someone the Winchesters will be able to quasi-rely on as we head towards the end of the season? Or should they be treating him as a potentially explosive bomb?
JC: That is probably question number one for the Winchesters. You’ve seen Crowley and Dean, arguably, start to develop, not a friendship, but maybe a kinship this year. And how to treat Crowley when he’s so sort of human sometimes is question number one. I think it’s easy to let your guard down around someone like that. But a point of contention with the brothers will be exactly how they do treat Crowley for at least these upcoming episodes.
There is the tease for the March 25th episode that Crowley tests Dean. Is there anything you can expand on about that?
JC: I can’t really. That won’t really become clear until you see this week’s episode.
Fair. How is Sam coping with everything, and what can you say about his path in these next few episodes?
JC: Well, Sam said a lot of things to his brother, so they’re dealing with the fallout of that. Sam has his — this is maybe more than the next couple of episodes, also, but I think issue number one is the boys are dealing with a rupture in their relationship as it were. Both are smarting from something of a Cold War, and neither is willing to budge. So how do you get a job done without letting your personal beef get in the way? That’s impacting Sam and Dean together. So for the next couple of episodes, that’s what driving them with the various stories they’re dealing with.
As writers, what difficulties do you face in crafting new ways for Sam and Dean’s relationship to hit these speed bumps? Or because they have all this history, is it a non-issue?
JC: It’s an excellent question. I think we’re all constantly surprised at the ways in which you can find that the boys can find ways to argue with each other. And I think over the last couple of years, the hits they’ve taken at each other have been a bit more personal, and a bit more deeply felt, deeply wounding. But the moments they’ve come together have felt that much more rewarding as well if you think of the last year. The beginning of this year, Dean had a secret with the angels, but I don’t know what else someone would have expected them to have done [with Sam’s life on the line].
We all love the brothers, and we all love that the brothers love each other. And I think we’re all pretty amazed at the depths at which they can go to hurt each other as well. There’s a lot of scar tissue that has built up over the years. And over the past couple of seasons, they have, at times, exposed much of it.
The people that you love the most often have the ability to cause you the most pain.
JC: Yeah, it’s like any family.
Well, one of the things that did tear them apart was Kevin’s death. Now that we know that Kevin’s spirit is — hopefully — safe with his mother, will they be brought back into the story this season? Or is that more of a card you’re looking to save for next season?
JC: I can’t speak too much to that. Despite Kevin’s untimely, and horrible, and grizzly demise we feel like he’s actually been left in a good spot. So I think we can trust he’ll be in that place until it’s time to come across him again. But for now, that’s where he is, until the SUPERNATURAL universe calls upon him…
Last we saw Castiel, he found himself with some followers. How is he handling that and what’s next for him?
JC: I think if it wasn’t clear in that episode, it will become very clear that Castiel is reluctant to take on any following at all. He’s been at the top of the mountain and it hasn’t gone very well for him in the past. So the idea of him leading any angel is a daunting one, and should he become a leader, it would be something he would have to take [pause at] — it’s not a quick decision for him to come to. It’s going to take a lot more than two angels showing up at his side to decide to lead anything. But we will explore just that: what will it take for Castiel to become a leader?
I know we still have a good chunk of episodes left, but what can you tease about what fans can expect to see in the final arc of the season?
JC: Well, we have a lot on our plates. I can tell you this: we’re going to pretty much deal with all of it. How we get rid of Abaddon; how we get rid of Metatron; how do we get the angels back into heaven, once and for all; is Crowley redeemable or not? And most importantly, how do the brothers find a way to repair their ruptured bond? There’s a lot on the plate, and it all gets dealt with one way or the other.
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I’m very excited about Dean’s Mark of Cain storyline!
I hope it and/or the ramifications continue into Season 10!
” But the moments they’ve come together have felt that much more rewarding as well if you think of the last year” – No, they haven’t, because it hasn’t happened. They keep teasing that the brothers will be brothers again, but we haven’t GOT that from them. There was the scene in the church that held so much promise – one scene in three years does NOT a “coming together” make. No matter how much promise it held. We haven’t seen the brothers being brothers in so long, there really is no hope of it happening at all left. And if we don’t have the Winchesters being brothers, we don’t have a show. THAT is the heart of the show, and it has been dead for years.
I really can’t wait to see how this Mark of Cain storyline plays out and I hope it will continue into season 10, too. Crowley testing Dean, I have been wondering about that for a while, guess I’ll have to wait and see 😉
Anyway, so happy that Dean finally has a storyline on his own 🙂
I admit I’m tired of the boys fighting. That’s gotten tiresome to me. I hope the schism is over soon, but would be interesting if Sam saves Dean this time.
I’m so excited to see what happens to Dean! If it carried on into next season I hope Cas and Sam will team up to save him.
I’m very excited to see what happens to Dean as a result of the Mark of Cain. I sincerely hope the writers allow this arc to develop organically, allowing for it to expand beyond season 9 and into 10.
nice interview !! i am really excited to see what in store for Dean and what burden ans effects the Mark of cain has on him !! plus now i am also intrigued by what crowley is testing Dean for ?
Dean has really been isolated emotionally this season and was forced to take help from where he can get ie crowley ( albeit human , He is ultimately the King of hell) .. so i am worried about what Crowleys bigger picture is , in getting Dean involved with the first blade and mark of cain fight against abbadon !!
super excted and thirilled to see hoe Jensen is goig to portray this dark broken Dean ..
I can’t understand why the writers/showrunner can’t come up with any sort of dramatic tension that doesn’t involve Sam and Dean fighting with each other. We’ve been doing that for several seasons now, and it’s old. How about putting them on the same page and letting them fight someone else for a change? THAT would be interesting and exciting, far more so than this endless rehash of old issues and the struggle to find ever more absurd, OOC reasons for them to be at each other’s throats every season. I mean, if the writers/showrunners are struggling with that, maybe it’s time for a change.
Sam who ?!
Woo-hoo! I can’t wait for more of the Mark of Cain storyline!
I also can’t wait to see more Abaddon, including more Dean and Abaddon!
Thank you for asking a question about Sam. I guess Jeremy Carver as good as said that not only does Sam have NO storyline this season, but that he is taking Dean’s side on this issue. If I were a rape victim, I’d never want anyone connected to SPN sitting in the jury, because they’d blame ME for getting raped in the first place. This show has gotten so morally gross, and I expect it’s only going to get grosser. Very disappointed. Jeremy Carver should be fired. The past 2 seasons have been so bad if you care about character logic and consistency.
I know I’m not alone in thinking WHERE THE HELL IS CAS. I really hope they use Misha more next season, because he’s a phenomenal actor and his interactions with Sam and Dean (well, more Dean – profound bond, all that) are the highlight of the show for me.
Looking forward to the episode tonight! Finally we are moving forward with the MoC storyline. It looks like sh*t is about to hit the fan with Crowley and Abbadon. Jensen always does an amazing job, and I’m super excited to see where this storyline goes. Bring on the dark!Dean, do want! 😀
Thank you so much for asking about Dean and the Mark of Cain storyline. I’m really excited to hear that this is going to really kick off in the coming episodes. We’ve had several fairly standalone episodes since the MoC was introduced, and it’s been worrisome that the MoC would not be a major storyline after all, despite our high hopes. I’m very pleased to hear that we will get to explore Dean’s darker impulses this season, and for him to have a more prominent role in the mytharc for once.
Looking forward to the rest of the season!
Carver and his team has no sense of pacing. They waste episodes and will have all rushed towards the end. Terrible job.
I’ve loved Season 9! One of my favorite seasons. I hate when “the boys” fight of course bc I love their characters so much. But I get it and also kinda love the tension it makes. I don’t mind them being like this to each other right now. That mean the moment they start “making up”, it will be so much sweeter. (Plus, Jensen, or uh Dean, is extra super hot when he is mad.) Which leads me to, I am so excited to see what happens with the mark of Cain! Really glad Jensen/Dean has his “own” storyline finally. And this one looks like it will be so good an interesting. And again..hottt…the only thing I would change at this point is more Cas!
Anyways, love this show and everything about it. Even when I don’t completely agree with what’s happening!
The complaints about Sam not having a storyline are rich to me, considering that except for season 7 he’s the one who ALWAYS all the major storylines, while Dean played sidekick. Only in season 3 were the brothers equally important.
And what Dean did was indeed very wrong, he did indeed violate Sam’s free will, but he did NOT rape Sam!
For us Dean fans, we’ve had to put up with him never getting the major storylines while the focus was mainly always on Sam. Last season, ALL spoiler talk was about Sam while JC barely remembered he had a character named DeanNow for the first time in YEARS, Dean finally gets some of the focus and some of you can’t take it. Well, you’ll forgive me if I don’t sympathize.
I like Sam, I certainly don’t want everything to be all about Dean. But I want the brothers to have equality in the story arc importance and I’m sorry but up until now, the storyline importance has ALWAYS been heavily in Sam’s favor. After 8 seasons, it’s Dean’s turn.
This season is sooooo terribly paced! Why so much filler when we have the human souls including Kevin not going to heaven, Cas reluctantly collecting angel followers, Dean going dark side due to the Mark of Cain, the throne of Hell up for grabs and we’ve barely scratched the surface of all of those stories? I will be mad if they wrap all of that up in three episodes when I could have done without Dean becoming a dog and that awful lets make fun of virgins episode. Not to mention its ridiculous that Dean and/or Sam hasn’t called Cas for help with this Mark of Cain thing. He knows all about biblical stuff and could tell them what it really means.
I also hope they’re not serious about redeeming Crowley. After all of season 6 was about how Cas was wrong for trusting Crowley, I really hope Crowley is up to no good and Cas and Sam have to team up to save Dean from Crowley and himself the way that he’s fought for both of them.
I have to agree that the season has been terribly paced with too much awful filler, whereas previous seasons had weak ‘MOW’ episodes, some of these were barely watchable the first time, and will never have a reviewing (from me) Jensen reported that in two episodes he and Jared had to switch lines for the brothers because the writers didn’t know the characters well enough. The writers themselves have admitted to letting staff people check their stories for continuity errors (which have failed)
With a fandom as deeply knowledgeable and devoted as Supernatural, you have to have respect enough for the characters and the word they are in to NOT blithely throw out ideas right and left to see what sticks.
For the first season, SPN had early renewal, and months on which to develop the season arc, but most of the production seems to be focused on creating a spin-off, leaving SPN to falter.
Not that this is the fault of the excellent actors and crew.
It’s sad to hear that Carver tosses out so easily ‘get rid of Abaddon’ and ‘get rid of Metatron’ two characters that were supposed to have more weight, and had both great actors and premise, but rather than delve into these important characters, pivotal to the mytharc, we got half-baked Dean as a Dog, scooby-doo villains and constant tortue for the hapless Castiel, (who had a completely wasted human storyline)
Now that we are in the home stretch, we may get a few good eps, because honestly, they have to finally deal with the mytharc. But one good opener, one okay mid-season finale, and a bang-up finish do not a satisfying year make.
Oh, excellent, a lot to deal with, but waste 2 more episodes (9×19 and 9×20) on non-mytharc stuff! (9×19 doesn’t have Cas but has Jody so presumably it’s MOTW again… who the FUCK needs MOTW this late in the season? Why can’t we have Jody meeting Cas, or getting back to Crowley and give him a well-deserved punch? After that they could even make peace if Crowley apologizes.
I love that Dean finally has a story again and would love to see it fully developed. And I would much rather have a short season than go through another with terrible pacing like this one. How about 15 solidly plotted episodes instead of 23 with more than half of them being poorly written filler?